SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
There are fewer cattle in the U.S. now than at any point since 1951, according to a recent report by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. It's one of the reasons beef prices have climbed so sharply. Ground beef is up about 17% compared to a year ago. And that's put some ranchers in a difficult position. Zach and Kacie Scherler-Abney farm and ranch on 5,000 acres in southwest Oklahoma, and they join us now. Thank you both very much for being here.
ZACH SCHERLER-ABNEY: We're glad to be here.
KACIE SCHERLER-ABNEY: Thank you for having us, Scott.
SIMON: Let me ask you - numbers down on your ranch?
Z SCHERLER-ABNEY: Our numbers are slightly down, in part because the market is so good, not just because of the flip side where our costs of production are risen. I mean, the story really starts probably 10 years ago. The last time cattle prices were this high was 2014, 2015, and they crashed really significantly after that because when times are good, ranchers expand, and when times are bad, ranchers typically tend to pull back. And then in the last year, we've had some policy changes, tariffs on places where we would have been importing beef from typically. And ranchers are frankly a little scared to get into the business because of what happened in 2014 and 2015.
So the positive side of this for the American rancher is that we're at all-time high prices. The negative side is, well, there's just not that many cattle, and this is a really slow biological system. So that's where we feel like there's opportunity for us right now as ranchers, but that's a very complicated - this is a very dynamic and complicated industry.
SIMON: Kacie, what do you hear from other ranchers in the area?
K SCHERLER-ABNEY: Yeah. I think it's up and down. A lot of ranchers are struggling. A lot of them were selling off parts of their herd back in 2021, when drought covered a lot of the U.S. because they couldn't afford to keep supplementing feed. So obviously, when there's drought, the grass isn't growing. A lot of farmers have to purchase hay to bring in to feed to their livestock, and those costs can become really cumbersome. Typically, you would see ranchers buying back in at some point to replenish the herd that they had to sell. But again, because prices are so high right now, it's been difficult for ranchers to replenish their herd and get back to the numbers that they were operating at before.
SIMON: Drought and wildfires, too, I gather.
K SCHERLER-ABNEY: Yeah. Wildfires have had an extreme impact. They're having an impact now, not too far from where we live. But there have been some pretty extreme climate impacts we're seeing that have put ranchers in a challenging place.
SIMON: Could I get you both to tell us a little bit about the cattle operation you run?
Z SCHERLER-ABNEY: Sure. So we have our own operation that we run alongside Kacie's family here in southwest Oklahoma. And Kacie should fill in some there on her history with this. But our cow herd is mostly a grass-finished, regenerative operation.
K SCHERLER-ABNEY: Yeah. I'm fifth generation here in southwest Oklahoma. Growing up, it wasn't an occupation that I saw myself committing to. I saw the challenges that came along with it. I moved away to California for about a decade. I worked in the nonprofit sector, and then about eight years ago, Zach and I moved back. And we started our own operation adjacent to my family, where we get to practice and run a business a little bit differently, but we're really grateful to have their support.
SIMON: Zach, I understand, at the same time, a lot of young people are leaving ranching.
Z SCHERLER-ABNEY: You know, frankly, it's a hard lifestyle. A lot of ranchers and farmers work extremely long hours for very little and often no or negative pay. It's hard to get capital or financing. It's hard to live rurally. The amount of suicides with farmers is staggering when you look at it relative to other fields. And so this is just a really difficult industry to be in. And if you're a young farmer who's excited about coming back to the ranch but stuck somewhere where you don't have any agency and it takes too much money to own enough land or lease enough land or have enough cows to really make a living, then it's hard to justify, which is not to say that it's not possible. But for a lot of young farmers and ranchers, it's not as appealing as a town job.
SIMON: Kacie, is this the kind of life you wanted?
K SCHERLER-ABNEY: It is not what I planned. I thought I was a big-city gal, but it's given me new eyes to really appreciate the beauty of where we are, and we're really passionate about keeping other farmers and ranchers on the land, showing them that there are ways to do this. There are ways to make it work, not just to build a better food system for us now, in the present, but keep our soil healthy so that we can ensure that this continues for generations to come.
SIMON: I feel I've got to ask you a question on behalf of a lot of people who wonder why ground beef costs 17% more than it used to. Are ranchers and people in the beef industry overcharging - dare I say - even gouging consumers?
Z SCHERLER-ABNEY: The fact is, you know, ground beef has gone up 17%. When you look at input costs for agriculture over the last five or six years, it's significantly more. You know, a tractor that used to cost 250,000 now costs over half a million. Fertilizer that most commercial farmers use has skyrocketed. The cost of doing business in the agricultural sector has gone up significantly more than the outputs, than commodity corn, soy, cotton or even cattle prices.
That's why we're seeing this big shift, is not just because the supply is down and demand is steady, but also 'cause it costs significantly more now than it did even three years ago to produce a pound of ground beef. So, no, I don't think the American rancher is gouging. I think the actual price that is being paid now is a reflection of not only policy changes and changes to the supply available, but also just the cost of production.
SIMON: Zach and Kacie Scherler-Abney, they're cattle ranchers in southwest Oklahoma. Thank you so much for being with us.
K SCHERLER-ABNEY: Thank you, Scott.
Z SCHERLER-ABNEY: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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