Equality New Mexico Executive Director Marshall Martinez speaks with KC Counts about the legal landscape for transgender athletes and others in New Mexico. Here's a transcript of their conversation:
KC Counts:
Can you start by talking a little bit about the landscape in New Mexico for transgender girls in sports andwhat'shappening right now in terms of that landscape across the state?
Marshall Martinez:
Yes, absolutely, so a couple of things. First of all, I think it's important to note that New Mexico has incredibly strong protections for trans folks in a myriad of ways including access to gender-affirming care and non-discrimination protections in schools, all of those things, right? That includes New Mexico does not have any state law that addresses trans athletes in any way, shape, or form. So the first thing in the context of the Supreme Court case, the first thing that we just like to remind folks is that this case was this decision said that the states who had banned trans girls from playing girls sports were allowed to keep those bans, New Mexico does not have that ban. Okay? What we do have area number of policies through the New Mexico Athletics Association. So, those are not laws. They're regulatory policies from an entity that is made up of volunteer board members who are appointed by school districts and individually the governor's office and, you know, a number of other folks, right? And what they have said is that they are not going to directly address this question unless they are forced to do so. And so, what we've been experiencing in New Mexico is a little bit of a patchwork. There are some school districts or some places where trans girls have been prohibited from playing girls' sports because that individual district or that coach knew that it was a trans person. And we also believe that there are a handful of trans girls who have been playing their sports because they transitioned so much early, long before they started playing the sport. And so nobody sort of knows and they've just been integrated in their teams and they're just considered another girl on the team.
KC Counts:
You know, you bring up an important point. Well, a couple, of course, there. But one that I wanted to chat a little bit about was you said a handful. Here we have this case before the Supreme Court. And what we know is a pretty small percentage of the population, right? Can you put that in perspective for us in terms of what percentage or how many students would be considered trans girls playing in sports?
Marshall Martinez:
Yeah, so the most generous number that we can come up with is roughly 4 to 5% of the global population identifies as transgender, right? So, we're talking about at most 5 out of 100. identify as transgender. So then you break that down to how many people out of a hundred are playing athletics at all. And so then you've probably gotten down to, I would say, maybe 10. I'm from Alamogordo, New Mexico, so it was a little higher, maybe 12 or 15, because we were expected to play sports, right? Then you break that down to how many of them are playing on girls or women's sports. Well, in Alamogordo, there were so few women's sports to play, that it would have like 7 or 8 out of that 15 because girls could play basketball, volleyball, and soccer. That's it. So those were the only options. There was no women's swim team. Maybe there was a women's golf team when I graduated. So you're talking about at this point, I mean, we don't have hard numbers for lots of reasons, but you're talking about at most five out of 100 people who identify as trans and then at most seven out of 100 people who are girls or women or identify as girls or women who are playing in athletics. And then you're looking at how frequently does that number of five and that number of seven overlap with each other across 89 school districts in New Mexico. I say a handful because we have reason to believe that it's not more than a couple dozen trans young people across the entire state who are even engaged in youth athletics.
KC Counts:
Are there any cases across the state that you've had your eye on in terms of places where you're watching how things are developing?
Marshall Martinez:
You know, no, not really. And in large part because New Mexicans by and large have said again and again that we love and affirm and support our friends, our families, our neighbors, including the trans ones, no matter what. And so, you know, we, I mean, at Equality New Mexico, we're always just keeping our eye across the state on what's popping up. When stories like this come out, of course, social media was full of comments about people saying, you know, I'm glad there aren't going to be a ton of trans girls beating out my girl for her swimming scholarship in whatever small town, and we could look at that and be like, okay, but how many trans girls were really playing? I mean, that's not a thing, right? And so... The reality is that we're not, you know, what we're trying to do right now is just remind folks a couple of things. The first thing being that New Mexico does not have a ban on trans women playing sports in our schools. Only a handful of states have those bans. And so this Supreme Court decision didn't impact us. The second thing that we are saying is like, look, New Mexico, historically, culturally, right now has said again and again that we love trans people and we love trans young people in our communities, and we will treat them with respect and dignity. There are, of course, some outliers, but this isn't where New Mexico is focused. And then the third thing that I would say, which is what Equality New Mexico and organizations like ours across the country have been saying, is the vast number of people in our communities are worried about how high their gas prices are. They're worried about whether or not their kids can get to and from school safely. They're worried about whether or not kids have enough food in their bellies and enough time to sleep to do their homework, and they're worried about whether or not their school district has the money to make sure that their little girl has a sport to play next year. They're not worried about whether or not trans girls are playing in those teams.
KC Counts:
The other point I think that you mentioned that I wanted to touch on before I let you go is that you mentioned some of the trans girls in question had transitioned so early on, like before puberty, right? So that was one of the points made, I think, while we were listening to this decision and its reasoning, one of the points made that they, that those girls would not carry that perceived advantage that others who perhaps transition later would. Can you comment on that?
Marshall Martinez:
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple of things. I mean, I think the first thing that we can say is the first thing that I would say as You know, as an older brother with a younger sister who was an athlete, first and foremost, I defy any man, including a lawyer or a judge, to tell my sister that by virtue of being assigned male at birth, they are faster, stronger, or more talented in athletics than she is. And I would pay money to watch what happens after they say that. The reality is, I think that this so-called advantage, there isn't science to back it up. It is not true, and it's inherently sexist to just assume that people who are born and assigned male at birth are inherently stronger and faster than people who are not. That is based in sexism, first and foremost. Secondly, the reality is that is exactly right. So many of these young folks that we're talking about have transitioned and begun that transition at such a young age now because our culture and our communities are accepting, once again, as they have been historically, of trans kiddos, that in many of these cases, trans young people are at school and no one knows them as a trans young person. They just know them as their friend, Jenny. That's the way they know them. And so this isn't a topic because younger girls, they don't care. She's just another girl that is on the playground with me and then sat with me at the lunch table in middle school. And yeah, maybe she plays soccer with me, too. And we're friends. That's it. That's all these folks are thinking about.
KC Counts:
It begs the question about gender-affirming care in New Mexico, because there are protections, right, for gender-affirming care in the state.
Marshall Martinez:
Yes, absolutely. We have some of the strongest protections for access to gender-affirming care in the country?
KC Counts:
And what happens when states like neighboring Texas make gender-affirming care illegal for people under 18? What effects have we seen in New Mexico because of that? And do you think that this most recent court decision could also have an impact in New Mexico?
Marshall Martinez:
I think what we've seen across the board as this forest fire of anti-trans policies across the country in the last, you know, seven years or so, is that New Mexico is seen as a refuge state, and we are seeing more and more folks move to New Mexico. Whether they are trans or not,we'veseenmore and morefolks move to New Mexico specifically because we have affirming inclusive policies and laws, andthat'swhere those folks want to live. I would say probably once a month or so at EQNM, we hear from somebody, sometimesthey'retrans, sometimesthey'rethe parents of a trans kiddo. Sometimesthey'rejust allies who say, I just want to introduce myself. I moved to New Mexico from Texas, from Oklahoma, from Arkansas, from Missouri, right? And I moved here because I was tired of living in a state that is governing the healthcare decisions and the lives of the people around me, and I wanted to be in a place that is safer. The impact we're seeing in New Mexico is a lot more folks are coming here because the reality is most folks want to live in a place where they're allowed to live their lives. And the other thing that I'll just say, and we just keep have been repeating. We border Texas. I actually was just in Texas for a week and a half for a vacation. I have family and friends in El Paso and so I visit them regularly as well. Most Texans also aren't thinking about trans girls and they're not thinking about trans kids and gender affirming care. They're thinking about whether or not this winter they're going to lose power across their state because their power grid doesn't uphold what they need. They're thinking about whether or not they could afford gas. They're thinking about whether or not their family and community members are going to end up drafted into a war halfway across the world that they know nothing about and things should never have started, right? Like the reality is New Mexicans and really most Americans aren't focused on these sorts of things. We have these strong protections because we knew it was the right thing to do and it was quick to get those protections passed because that's who New Mexico is and historically that's who we've been and we pivoted immediately to talking about a broader healthcare crisis and a crisis of homelessness.
KC Counts:
Would that where your main focus is now. Why don't you tell us about what you are focusing on in your organization?
Marshall Martinez:
Yeah, I mean, of course, right now we're in the midst of a major election year, and so we will see how this election turns out. But some of the policy proposals that we're looking at for the next legislative session are just the ongoing, unfinished work that we've had in the last couple of years, data privacy being the top of our list, because we don't believe that corporations, big tech, or the federal government should be able to be collected. all this data about all of us and snooping and identifying us as an immigrant or a trans person or a queer person or just somebody who likes to read young adult fan fiction novels. Like, none of that information necessarily needs to be kept about anybody. So we're talking about that. And then the other thing that Equality New Mexico is focused on is this lens of public safety and sort of reframing what people think of as public safety and thinking about it really as community safety and how do we make everybody safer in our state. And so we've very much also been thinking about housing policy. We've been thinking about substance addiction treatment and the policies that impact that. And we're thinking about the reality is that the biggest indicator of crime and unsafety in any neighborhood or community is poverty and lack of access to resources. So, we're looking policy-wise at how we bring those resources to folks and lift folks up out of poverty so that they aren't living in crime or forced into that unsafe situation.
KC Counts:
All right. How about some resources for folks to go if they are curious to learn more about those efforts.
Marshall Martinez:
Yeah, absolutely. So you can find Equality New Mexico online. You could just Google Equality New Mexico, or it can be found at eqnm.org. And so that's the place to check out our policy agenda and all the things we're working on. I also always refer folks, especially if they have questions about trans folks, about access, about protections, or about what's happening in New Mexico, to the Transgender Resource Center of New Mexico, a phenomenal resource. They have a drop-in center in Albuquerque. They're statewide. And they really are helpful in a number. I mean, they'll help you with your name change. They'll help you access, find a medical provider that is affirming and safe for you, right? They'll also connect you to housing resources or mental and behavioral health resources. They have support groups and peer groups. So, google Equality New Mexico if you want to know more about the policy stuff. And then if you're looking for resources and connections or ways to help support the trans community in New Mexico, then check out the Transgender Resource Center of New Mexico.
KC Counts:
All right. Well, thank you so much for all of that information and for sharing your perspective on this important issue. We appreciate the time.
Marshall Martinez:
Thanks so much for having me. It's good to talk to you.
