LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Former Congressman Barney Frank, the liberal icon and gay rights pioneer from Massachusetts, has died. Frank was 86 and passed away at his home in Ogunquit, Maine, where he'd been receiving hospice care for congestive heart failure. Reporter Adam Reilly, from member station GBH, had one of the last interviews with Frank, and he joins me now. Good morning, Adam.
ADAM REILLY, BYLINE: Good morning.
FADEL: So what did Frank say when you spoke to him just a few weeks ago?
REILLY: Well, Frank was known throughout his career as a very bright, very funny and very argumentative person. True to form. When I spoke with him, one of the things he wanted to do was press a political argument. He has a new book coming out in September called "The Hard Path To Unity: Why We Must Reform The Left To Rescue Democracy." Excuse me. The core of his argument is that the left wing of the Democratic Party has become too intransigent, and he argues that there are certain litmus tests. Excuse me. I apologize, I'm losing breath.
FADEL: Oh, that's fine. Go ahead. Take your time.
REILLY: He argues that there are certain litmus tests on issues like the environment and immigration and trans rights, and that if Democrats don't do exactly what the left wants them to on these issues, they are rejected by progressives. Frank has a very different theory of political change. He thinks big changes are possible, like same-sex marriage, but years of activism are required to get enough buy-in so that those changes can be made and remain durable. I'm sorry, I've completely lost my voice. I apologize so much.
FADEL: Oh, that's fine. Let's try to get through this. Take a moment. I wonder if he was reflective about his legacy when you spoke with him.
REILLY: He was. He was actually both very funny and thoughtful on this topic. When I asked him what he was proudest of when it comes to his time in public life, he took a deep breath and he said, I am proudest of the fact that I've learned through long experience with the media and others not to answer that question.
FADEL: (Laughter).
REILLY: If what I've done doesn't speak for itself, then too bad. But he also spoke at length about his advocacy for gay rights, personally and professionally. When I asked him if he would redo any part of his life if he could, he said, without missing a beat, I would have come out earlier. He also likened his political career to surfing, which is a passion of Frank's husband, Jim Ready. As Frank put it to me, you can't single-handedly make the waves that lead to political change, but when they're cresting, you can ride them. Frank told me he came along at basically the most propitious time in American history to be an advocate for gay rights. There were so many things when he was getting started, he pointed out that gay people couldn't do. They couldn't join the Army. They couldn't get a security clearance. Gay people were even formally barred from immigrating to or just visiting the United States. And by the time Frank was done, he pointed out all those prohibitions had been reversed.
FADEL: And Barney Frank was a part of that. Adam, how will he be remembered?
REILLY: I think his legacy is going to be twofold. He will be remembered, no doubt, as a gay rights pioneer. He was the first member of Congress to voluntarily come out, which he did in 1987, the first member of Congress to marry a member of the same sex. He played a key role in ending don't ask, don't tell, but he'll also be remembered for crafting some incredibly important legislation, including, first and foremost, the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, which he co-authored with Senator Chris Dodd after the massive financial crisis of 2008, to rein in the financial industry.
FADEL: That's GBH reporter Adam Reilly. Thank you for your time. Thank you for this.
REILLY: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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