AILSA CHANG, HOST:
The NBA paused to remember two of its own yesterday. Before last night's playoff matchup between San Antonio and Minnesota, there was a moment of silence for Brandon Clarke, who played for the Memphis Grizzlies. He was 29 years old when he died this week.
The other was retired player Jason Collins, who also died this week. He had battled glioblastoma, an aggressive form of brain cancer, and he was only 47 years old. Back in 2013, Collins made history with a Sports Illustrated cover story that began with the words, I'm a 34-year-old NBA center. I'm Black, and I'm gay. He was the first active player in any of the four major North American men's sports leagues to come out. Franz Lidz helped him write those words, and he joins us now. Welcome.
FRANZ LIDZ: Thanks for having me.
CHANG: Thanks for being with us. So, Franz, take me back to 2013, because I understand your longtime friend, a sports agent, had asked you if you would be interested in the story of an NBA player coming out as gay. And you could have chosen to write a profile of Collins. But instead, you suggested that Collins write a personal essay. How did he feel about that idea at first?
LIDZ: Well, he felt a little funny, to tell the truth. He thought it'd be kind of a feature or better than that. And I was saying, you know, it just makes it more intimate if you do it first person.
CHANG: Yeah. And I knew that you knew almost nothing about Jason Collins before you sat down to interview him. And that interview, I heard, went on for almost four hours. What do you remember most about that four-hour conversation?
LIDZ: What I remember most, actually, is, you know, he had a little hesitation in revealing some kind of personal private facts and thoughts. Part of his problem was that his mother was a Baptist and was opposed to him coming out publicly in the first place.
CHANG: So he carried some guilt with him during that conversation.
LIDZ: Exactly. And his parents, until he told them about it only a few days before, didn't even know he was gay. In fact, his twin brother, Jarron, didn't know he was gay.
CHANG: Yeah. Why do you think he wanted that particular distinction - to be the first person in any North American major men's sports league to come out?
LIDZ: I remember he used to quote a line from "Moneyball" that goes something like, I know you're taking it in the teeth, but the first guy through the wall always gets bloody. So he was willing to get bloody.
CHANG: Yeah.
LIDZ: And he thought it was, you know, a great cause. He didn't think of himself as necessarily the pioneer, but he thought it had to be done. And for others to come out, he had to kind of breach one of the last barriers in the locker room.
CHANG: Yeah. So you interviewed Collins again in 2023 on the 10-year anniversary of his essay being published. What stood out to you about that conversation? Did you feel he was in a distinctly different place 10 years later?
LIDZ: Yes. He was much more confident. And I'd asked him, you know, in the 10 years, did any other athlete or opposing player - he'd come back after the interview for part of a season with the New Jersey Nets - and he said, there's only one guy he called a knucklehead. He was standing under the basket during a free throw...
CHANG: Right.
LIDZ: ...And a player - this knucklehead - said, you don't belong in the league. And Jason just shrugged it off.
CHANG: How generous of Jason to only call him a knucklehead (laughter).
LIDZ: Yeah. That was him.
CHANG: Given the way he was, even in the face of people who might have been homophobic, what do you think Jason Collins' legacy will be?
LIDZ: Let's see. His legacy is that he was a trailblazer. He had the courage to do what no other athlete had done before him and withstand those slings and arrows that everyone else thought would come. And, in fact, they didn't.
CHANG: Franz Lidz, a former Sports Illustrated senior writer who helped Jason Collins write his coming out essay. Thank you so much for helping us remember Jason.
LIDZ: Oh, my pleasure. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
