STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Some Democratic lawmakers have visited an immigration detention center in Jena, Louisiana. They met with high-profile targets at the Trump administration's crackdown on pro-Palestinian students. Mahmoud Khalil is a permanent resident with a green card who studied at Columbia and had been involved in protests there. Rumeysa Ozturk is a grad student at Tufts University in Massachusetts and had a student visa and had written an op-ed article that some people objected to. Both were arrested by immigration agents and sent to Louisiana last month, presumably on their way out of the country. Democratic Representative Troy Carter of Louisiana is among the Democrats who visited them, and others, in that detention center. Welcome to the program, sir.
TROY CARTER: Good morning. Thank you for having me.
INSKEEP: What was the purpose of going?
CARTER: Well, a wellness visit to make sure that we were able to go to visit, to tour the site, to see that they're being treated humanely and to express our concern and support to make sure that they understand that at least some of us respect the First Amendment and their ability to have free speech.
INSKEEP: I know that you met with multiple people. You must have had multiple conversations. Is there one conversation or exchange that sticks with you this morning?
CARTER: Yeah, the fact that they were frightened. I mean, they're frightened. They're concerned. They're confused. They simply want to go home. One of the things that was very clear in our discussion with them and was a - something that transcended each of our conversations with the four people we met with was information flow is horrible. We aren't told anything. We're picked up. We're taken from this place to that place to that place with no information. Many of them were denied access to a lawyer for long periods of time. They're kept in places that are very cold with access to limited medical attention. It's a daunting situation, and it appeared to be, at least on its face, a clean place, but a place that did not provide the resources that are needed for these individuals.
INSKEEP: Interesting you say they simply want to go home - powerful word, home. We're talking here about a permanent resident. Somebody else who had a student visa. Some other people with various immigration statuses. Did they all regard America as their home?
CARTER: They all regard America as their home. For example, Wendy Britta (ph) is a resident of Jefferson Parish in my home district in Louisiana. She's married to an American citizen. She has three children who are American citizens. She's been here for 17 years. She volunteers at the local school. She went in for her normal ICE checkup, and she never went home. She never made it home.
INSKEEP: Let me ask about the government's case against these individuals. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has said we have the power and that we should expel people he describes as lunatics. That's a word he's used more than once, I believe. Two parts of that - first, do you accept that Secretary Rubio, under the law, does have the power to expel people who are not citizens?
CARTER: Not under the definition of what he determines a lunatic. What gives any individual the power to suggest that someone is a lunatic? Based on what? Based on your view or based on someone else's view? That's a dangerous abuse of power. These individuals exercised their First Amendment right, freedom of speech. In Rumeysa's case, she merely wrote an op-ed. In the case of Khalil, here's an individual who says clearly - and his actions prove - that he is not antisemitic. He merely wants peace for his homeland. He made clear that he is adamantly opposed to Hamas and any other terrorist organizations. How do you say, when you research this individual, that they should be deported because they're a danger? No, a secretary of state should not unilaterally be able to do this.
INSKEEP: Now, we should note the protests at Columbia were chaotic. They were disturbing for a lot of people. We could have a long discussion about Khalil's exact role in them, but there was a lot going on there. However, you're correct that ideas are part of this, objectionable ideas. In this case, a particular kind of criticism of Israel. Do you believe the United States should be using its power to push out certain objectionable ideas when that can be done in the case of people who are here who are not citizens?
CARTER: America's role should always be to promote peace, to promote democracy, to uphold the standards of our Constitution. And when we get to a point that we're unilaterally using our power without due process, without giving people the opportunity to be heard and to be defended, we've lost a big deal.
INSKEEP: Should people be able to say anything if they're immigrants, noncitizens of the United States?
CARTER: This is America. In our great democracy, we don't have the luxury of always agreeing with people. We can vehemently disagree with what they say, but still exercise and support free speech.
INSKEEP: Troy Carter is in New Orleans, Louisiana. He is a Democratic member of Congress and one of several who met people in an immigration facility in Jena, Louisiana. Thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
CARTER: Thank you, sir.
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