JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Shortly after midnight, the House approved a Trump administration plan to cancel $9 billion in previously allocated funds. This includes $1.1 billion for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, cutting all federal support for PBS, NPR and member stations. One of those stations is Boise State Public Radio. It has more than 30 broadcast signals across Idaho that provide news and music programming, including in rural areas of the state. Tom Michael is the general manager of Boise State Public Radio, and he joins me now. But before we start, I'll note that no NPR executive has had any input into the conversation that we are about to have.
Tom Michael, welcome.
TOM MICHAEL: Hi, Juana.
SUMMERS: First, I just want to start by giving listeners a picture of how much member stations are set to lose if President Donald Trump signs this legislation into law as expected. So, Tom, roughly how much will Boise State Public Radio lose?
MICHAEL: So that's 20% of our budget. It's going to be about $600K each year, at least.
SUMMERS: In practical terms, what does that type of financial loss mean for your station?
MICHAEL: Sure. Well, public radio looks different in different places, but obviously, we're fundraising today, and that's so important. But I can't imagine there wouldn't be some sort of loss of people, programs or services. It's the last thing we want to do, but, you know, options are on the table.
SUMMERS: Yeah. I know that Boise State Public Radio serves a handful of rural areas across the state of Idaho. What types of services are at risk if that federal funding goes away, and you're losing that roughly 20%?
MICHAEL: You know, what's interesting about our state, Idaho, it's a low-population state. I mean, I'm here in the capital city. The population is 235,000, and it's been growing really fast, right? That's a big number for us. It's also a mountainous state. So unlike some concentrated urban areas that have, like, one large transmitter that can serve, you know, millions, we have to spend a lot on infrastructure. You had mentioned a few dozen signals of ours, and they're mostly in rural areas.
SUMMERS: I mean, this debate has been going on on Capitol Hill for some time, so I know that stations like yours and others across the country were planning that this might be a possibility that you'd have to do without this money. How has - now that this is real, how is this changing your approach to how you manage your station?
MICHAEL: Sure. I mean, a lot of hard decisions to come. And - but also, there's a lot of innovation in public media, and I don't want that to be lost, either. There are a lot of regional collaborations. In 2018, we stood up a regional journalism collaboration called the Mountain West News Bureau, and we share content with other stations. I think a future model of this loose federation of public radio stations across the country would include more coordination and more consolidation. And if I could talk about those rural areas...
SUMMERS: Yeah.
MICHAEL: ...Because of this public-private partnership, we were able to invest in some very rural areas. Challis, Idaho, population 920, we have three signals. Cambridge, Idaho, population 250, we have two stations. Stanley, Idaho, population 120, we have three stations because it's part of our mission - our nonprofit mission - to serve the entirety of our state.
SUMMERS: Right. I have to imagine that you are talking to other station managers and leaders who work with or run public media organizations that, as you do, serve these types of rural or remote areas. What are you hearing from them? What are their conversations like about how you all move forward?
MICHAEL: Sure. Been talking to system leaders all day, been doing local media. As I said, Boise State Public Radio has been fundraising. Our fear is news deserts - right? - and your listeners know what that means. I heard Max Silverson on our "Reporters Roundtable" - that's our local program, "Idaho Matters." He runs a weekly newspaper. So think about that. Some communities don't even have a weekly newspaper. So real-time daily media is important. So we're all trying to figure out, how do we deliver that? How can we share better and figure this out? I mean, we don't want to retreat. We don't want to lose staff or services or programs. Maybe we could be smarter about it.
SUMMERS: Your state is one that President Trump won by nearly 40 percentage points in the most recent election in 2024. I want to know a bit about your audience. How does your audience typically respond to coverage on your station?
MICHAEL: You know, it's positive. I have, you know, we're a public trust, right? So I have, you know, big, long conversations all the time with our listeners. You know, they're curious people. One of our board members told me about a fellow named Phil (ph), who's a fourth-generation sheep farmer - right? - so he's in a lot of remote areas. And our signals through different areas on his - what? - 600-mile journey, he picks up our station. So it matters to a lot of people. For some people, you know, think about shut-ins, retirees. Broadcast - terrestrial broadcast is still a lifeline.
SUMMERS: When you talk to people in your community, do you get a sense as to whether they generally support or oppose defunding public media?
MICHAEL: You know, I think you announced the other day that Harris poll that showed that most Americans across political aisle support federal funding for public media. And we find that reflected in our state. We're popular in our home city. We're often the No. 1 or No. 2 news talk station in the country - I mean - excuse me - in our state. And, you know, wildfire alerts have been really important. This area is prone to wildfires. I remember when our afternoon host issued - broadcast evacuation orders from the Valley County Sheriff for the Four Corners fire outside of Cascade. We had a wildfire in Stanley, called the Bench Lakes (ph) fire last year. This is real-time information that's important. So I think people understand the value. Not everyone's a listener, but people understand, especially in these smaller communities, the value and might flip it on during these times of, you know, critical weather.
SUMMERS: Tom Michael, I would imagine there might be people out there who agree with you that public media is important but they question why it should get government funding. Why not rely more on donations or grants or on corporate sponsorships for services like the ones that you and I have been discussing? What do you say to those people?
MICHAEL: Sure. And I've had those conversations, too. I remember a conversation with someone saying, I don't believe you should get any federal funding, and they've hung up. And I've heard another one said, I don't believe you should get any federal funding, so I'm sending in money. So, you know, there are different sides to that coin. Again, like I was describing earlier, we've been around for almost 50 years, and part of it was that public-private partnership that allowed us to go to places that maybe wouldn't have what the commercial operators would call a return on investment, right? I mentioned these smaller towns, but we're there because it's our mission to be there and to serve the people of our state, to serve the people of Idaho.
SUMMERS: We've got about a minute left, so I'll ask you this in closing. I know that you have spent years in public media management. This is a challenging moment for many stations, I think. Do you think there's any opportunity, though, here, to envision a different model for funding - a different future for public media?
MICHAEL: Absolutely. I'm just off a conversation about that. I think there's greater possibility with major donors foundations with a lot of what they call this kind of new foundation money that's - that maybe raises their eyebrows at legacy media. But public radio has been and will continue to be innovative and strong and relevant to people across this country.
SUMMERS: We have been speaking with Boise State Public Radio's general manager, Tom Michael. Tom, thank you so much.
MICHAEL: Thanks, Juana.
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